JF-17:Enter the Thunder
The JF-17 is a fighter jet co-developed by the Pakistani Air force and the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) of China as a replacement to both nations aging fleet of MIG-21 derivatives and PAF’s Mirage III and V. The project was started in early 1990s and the project was awarded to Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation which has designed and developed the plane with collaboration with the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. As a result of American and Western sanctions imposed on China following the Tiananmen Square incident the project was abandoned briefly. Following the Indian acquisition of the SU-30 and Mig-29s and other advanced fighter jets such as the Mirage-2000, the JF-17 program was given a task of countering the threat posed to the Pakistani Air Force by the Indian acquisition of the said jets. As a result, the plane was re-designed to make way for advanced features and characteristics necessary for the transformation of the plane into a true 4th generation fighter.
Following its maiden may 31st 2003; the plane has seen numerous modifications made to it. For instance, the 4th prototype has seen the introduction of the American F-35-style Divertless Supersonic Intakes (DSI) to make the plane stealthier and to “turbulent boundary-layer airflow away from the engine inlet.”
One of the most impressive characteristics of the plane is its advanced 4.5 Generation electronic flight instrument system cockpit which is all-glass display. The cockpit consists of 3 Multi-function displays (MFDs) and employs hands on throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) control. In addition the cockpit allows for the displacement of many images/information at the same time.
According Pshamim of www.pakdef.info/forum:
“Other improvements include reduced body weight, through redesigned interior more space has been created, an increase of the fuel carrying capacity, and increased range. Aircraft will achieve speed of 1.8 Mach. After the improved engine, aircraft’s performance will further be enhanced. The new information shows that the current design will be frozen for the next three years before some further changes are introduced.”
He continues to write,
“In fact there is a reason for making the KLJ-10 radar development very important as it will be put into the first batch of JF-17 for launch of SD-10 giving them the BVR capability. Pakistan Air Force has sought this core capability for a long time, and the JF-17 will be able to shoulder the huge air defense burden. Though there has benn some recent talk of Rc-400 and they may be integrated with the 2nd batch production, Pakistan Air Force ultimately will choose a more advanced AESA radar and the negotiation are already underway with Western suppliers unless China who has been working to develop one can come up with the AESA soon. PAF has not made a decision yet, but it is believed that with the second batch of JF-17 military service, the issue will be resolved.”
In addition the plane will employ a helmet mounted display (HMD), with some-sources saying that the HMS will be the same one as the one the J-10.
The Pakistani version of the plane will carry Western radar and missile such as IRIS-T which was proposed during IDEAS arms exhibition in 2006 and even AIM-120-5C. The development of the Pakistani air-launched missile Ra’ad means that the plane will also have the capability to launch the missile, making the plane highly effective during stand-off missions.
Recently news has surfaced claiming that France is offering the Pakistan Air Force its RC-400 radarand MICA missile. According to Shaan Akbar of www.pakintel.com
“The RC-400 is an airborne radar that can detect, track, and fire upon multiple targets at long ranges simultaneously. It employs the use of electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM – essentially, anti-jamming) and other advanced features such as SAR. The radar is more capable than the standard Chinese-made avionics that will be equipping the first production batch of JF-17’s.
The Mica is a medium range missile that has a range of approximately 60 km (~ 40 miles) meaning it’s capable of engaging targets beyond visual range (BVR). It includes advanced features such as thrust vectoring (TVC) allowing it to make drastic changes in direction at immense speeds.
To some of you, this may just be a long list of acronyms and technical jargon. In sum, it essentially translates into the Thunder becoming a true multi-role fighter with the capability to target land, air and sea targets in all conditions, day or night, at stand-off ranges.”
Armed with such capabilities and having the ability to datalink with the Saab Erieye AWACS, means that the JF-17 will not only take-on the MIG-29 and Mirage-2000 of the Indian Air Force but also give the SU-30MKI-India’s most capable fighter a run for its money.
I love Pakistan & Air Force too. the Above article is very compherhansive for JF-17 i like it very much b/c its much more informative
Look the Su-30 MKI is said to be the most lethal and deadliest aircraft second or comaparable to even F-22 raptor itself in performance. If you are developing your first aircraft its fine, but di\ont pull IAF, top fighters in it. The USAF was very much impressed by our Mig 21 bis itself. So from now onwards dont get into conclusions, okay ? IAF will never fall to any Air force without a courageous fight. JAI HIND.
Aswin,
The SU-30MKI is a mean fighter no doubt, but within Pakistani Airspace, much of its advantages are neutralized. We are talking with JF-17 that is datalinked to the Erieye AWACS and most likely with RC-400 and MICA Missiles, supported by extensive ground command centers. On top of that the SU-30 will have to face the F-16 Block 52+ which comes with the AMRAAMs ( the best BVR weapons in the world) and J-10s. Contrary to what you believe, on each occassion the PAF has out-gunned and out-performed the IAF. Even the most celebrated fighter pilot, Capt. Chuck Yeager concluded that the PAF trashed the IAF. You can have your opinions, but if you can bring facts, I will be more than happy to shatter your claims!
Good luck
Hi there,
i had no clue that pakistan has AWACS capibility, however am amused at the comments made, about the PAF trashing the IAF when, recently on two ocations the IAF trashed the USAF which had brought in their f-15 eagles etc etc, in trainings over Alsaka and in India, also India will soon receive Phalcons, so lets not get carried away by chinese technology, hope it works more than the DVD players and toys that are made in china, ….. FYI they dont last too long
Vinay,
Yes indeed. Pakistan has ordered 6 Erieye AWACS from Sweden and further 2 Hawkeyes to be mounted on their American P3s from the US. Last year too they have signed a MOU with the Chinese to co-develop a new AESA-based AWACS. The Phalcon is not really more capable then the Erieye. personally, I will place my bet on the Erieye. Israeli tech is usually exaggerated just look at the performance of the Green-pine and Arrow against primative Hizbollah rockets. India itself will only get 3 phalcon systems which is no match for 5 Erieyes plus 2 American Hawkeyes and additional Pakistani-Chinese Awacs in the future. I think relatively speaking no matter how crappy Chinese technology might be it is still WAY more advanced then anything India can ever field. Even poor Pakistan I think has better defence industry then India for example compare the following Pakistani and Indian systems
Al Khalid Vs Arjun ( 20 years and hundreds of millions of dollars is yet to be inducted)
JF-17 Thunder Vs LCA
Babur Cruise Missile Vs Brahmos
Ra’ad Air Launched Cruise Missile Vs ?
J-10 Vs ?
So India is in no position to be criticizing others
About the US-Indian excercises, many experts believe that the Americans intentionally performed below par to win more funding from congress. In fact, in many instances American pilots were handicapped due to excessive restrictions.
FYI Pakistani Pilots are 6-0 against the best air force in the world, the Israeli Air Force! So unless India can match that, I don’t think any-one can brag about Indian pilot training when historically PAF was able to maintain Air Superiority over Western Pakistan on each war against numerically bigger India. Let the Facts speak for themselves my friend
@ evolvingprimate
very well said dude!
Indians are quiet now
Regards!
Well,The JF-17 Thunder’s main priority was to create a 4-4.5 Gen Jet Fighter that would be cheap,light and easy to produce.It’s mainly being exported to nations that have trouble in getting fighters like 29s F16s and 15s.
Long live Pakistan..
ppl .. i really dont get ..this fact.. y every1 pakistani …… or .. indian .. starts comparing each other on any grnd .. be it aircrafts .. or .. anything .. wht do u ppl in pakistan think …. u can outgun .. or .. wht indians think .. they ll fight out pakistan ..
y .. cnt we just live a like normal peaceful neighbors .. i dnt get it ..
n claims n comparisons about aircraft is ok till this country issue is nt brought in between .. plz dont mention about that ..
and whatever u said .. evolvingprimate …
hw u gonna solve the problem of 400 aircrafts vs .. 800s .. even if u have 10 awacs .. n wht nt ..
Perseus,
That is where Pilot training comes into play. Realistically speaking, I think Pakistan will be able to handle 3:1 ratio. You have to keep in mind, the numbers of squadrons in the Indian Air Force are dwindling fast and even the ACM said something needs to be done about it or else India will lose the quantitative advantage it has enjoyed for decades viz a viz Pakistan.
hey dude .. for now lets agree that PAF can handle .. 3:1 ratio .. that’s really good .. but inspite of my lil technical knwldge .. i ll tell u that PAF’s major concern is that the number of pilots per plane is twice as that of IAF and which in turn means … lesser number of hours per pilot .. and i guess it makes indian pilots better … and gives them an edge over pakistan’s .. yet … if u say .. i might agree .. nothing can be said .. till we actually see few in combat ….
moreover .. if u ll look at the aspect of planes possesed by PAF .. it aint that gr8 .. as of nw … right nw !!!
its behind .. way behind indian air force ..
nt just SU-30mki .. india has one of the largest fleets of mig – 21’s though it might be an old aircraft of 60’s yet .. it is quite well n can challenge ur best F-16’s
evolvingprimate, i have a question. who do u think would have the edge if the jf-17 was to go against the lca one on one?
i support the jf-17 but u have to admit, when it would come down to a dogfight, the lca might have an advantage; its much smaller and lighter. and of course it all depends on the pilot as well and pakistanis defintely win in that category.
evolvingprimate, i have a question. who do u think would win if the lca was to go against the jf-17; lets say in a neutral zone without interference. just one on one. the pakistani pilot might have the advantage i believe but the lca is much lighter and smaller so it might have the edge in the dogfight. i’d go with the jf-17
hey .. DUDE ..
whr r u nw?!?! wht hapnd .. nw u quite?!
was hoping for a rep
Perseus,
I am sorry buddy. I didn’t check my blog for few days b/c of moving and stuff. anyways, back to your comments,
Actually, historically Pakistani Pilots have pushed more hours then Indian pilots. In fact, in an article I read few months ago, it said that Pakistani Pilots pull roughly 210 hours per pilots compared to 230 and 220 for USAF and IDAF. In comparison, the Indians were said to be averaging less than 100 hours per pilot b/c of maintenance issues.
“As per the norms of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation, a pilot needs 1,500 hours of flying time to qualify for the Airline Pilots License. While a(n IAF) fighter pilot can hope to log about 100 hours in one full year, his transport counterpart can get past that figure in a month.”
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/08/16/stories/2005081602200100.htm
“The average utilisation rate of pilots in terms of flying hours per month is very low, as much as 5 to 6 hours a month,”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5094234.stm
Some more info
“Only half the fleet is available at any given time while the rest are being serviced, the documents show.
By 2010 the air forces’ transport fleet will be reduced by nearly 40%.
The IAF, which currently has 34 squadrons, plans to reduce that number to 28 by 2013.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5094234.stm
About Pakistani Pilot training and combat readiness, this is what the chief architect of, and the mastermind behind, the air campaign against Iraq during the Gulf War. Quoted from his biography, ” Every Man A Tiger,”
“Pakistan has one of the best, most combat ready airforces in the world….. For the Indian war planners, the Pakistan Air Force is their
worst fear. Pakistani pilots are respected throughout the world, ……because they know how to fly and fight.”
About the PAF pilots operating more pilots per plane than their Indian counterparts, here is a quote from an article I find interesting:
“At the present, PAF has a 3:1 cockpit to pilot ratio over the IAF’s 1:1 cockpit to pilot ratio. In other terms, it means
that PAF has three pilots to fly each plane in its inventory and in reality, even though it has a frontline strength of about 476 fighters, it
has nearly 1, 428 pilots to fly them. In comparison, the Indian Air Force has nearly 1,300 pilots to fly its 1,300 combat planes. In purely
combat terms, it means that PAF can generate a higher rate of sorties and it can sustain more combat operations within a given time.
Also, given PAF’s superior cockpit to pilot ratios, it can operate its aircraft in “multiple mission shifts”, which means that it can allow its
pilots to rest between sorties and still have fresh pilots to fly successive combat missions. In other words, a PAF pilot has to fly only
combat sortie per day and he can still have eight to ten hours of rest before his next sortie and thus, he will always be mentally alert and
freshly rested for combat missions.
In contrast, the Indian pilots, because of their 1:1 ratio, will be forced to fly combat sorties with out respite and this will eventually cause
a serious degradation in the IAF’s ability to sustain a high rate of combat sorties. Over a period of time, the continued air combat
operations with out rest will cause the Indian pilots to be tired and as a result the overall mission performance of Indian pilots will suffer.”
Honestly, India’s pilot training is not good and the reason for it is b/c India has followed Eastern ( specifically Russian) doctrine which relies on numbers compared to PAF’s reliance on Western doctrine to train their pilots. The whole phenomena of the “flying coffins” saga that plagued the Indian Air Force during the 1990s and early part of the 2000s was a result of inadequate pilot training. Russian jets which make the biggest share of Indian jets are notoriously hard to maintain, in contrast, Pakistani planes which are mostly American and European origins are relatively easy to maintain and I even heard some reports that it only takes less than 30 mins to overhaul a Pakistan jet and prepare it for another assault while the Indians have to take at least couple hours. So there exists a great discrepancy between the PAF pilot and the Indian Pilot in terms of training and it even extends into the maintenance arena.
It is a great step for India that it has finally decided to invest in better trainers such as the BaE Hawks which will go a long way in helping the Indian pilots become more capable fighters. Honestly, India has the resources and manpower to get a first class pilots but the beaurocrasy is what kills the Indian forces. Just look at the LCAs and Arjuns.
PlaneCrazy,
I would go with the JF-17 because it comes with proven systems such as European avionics, radars and ECMs. The LCA might not even see full service. Keep in mind, it was suppose to replace the Jaguars and the Migs in the IAF, but the fact that IAF has decided to go for external suppliers for its MRCA deals means that the LCA has not lived upto its expectations.
one more thing, i read an article somewhere, cant remember when but it stated that pakistan might be interested in purchasing some russian jets. dont know if this is true or not. and when is pakistan going to receive the j-10’s from china. i believe that will be our first jet with thrust vectoring
, that would be awesome.
its a shame pakistan is soo corrupt, this nation has a lot of potential. president musharraf should be taken out of duty as soon as possible; he cant be trusted, he has really damamged pakistan. i found this article about him being one of the least trusted leaders in the world
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN16119520080616
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. President George W. Bush is ranked only slightly above the rulers of Pakistan and Iran as one of the least-trusted leaders in the world, a survey released on Monday showed.
The survey, carried out by WorldPublicOpinion.org in 20 countries around the world, found that no national leaders inspired wide confidence outside their own countries. But Bush, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ranked at the bottom, the polling showed.”
PlaneCrazy,
I think you are talking about the J-11 a Chinese upgrade of the Russian SU-27 which some people speculate will join the Pak Navy and replace the current Mirage-5s. The plane has TV technology but realistically speaking I think the chances of it joining Pak Navy/AF are slim! Pak Navy will most likely use JF-17s, J-10s or F-16s to counter the Indian Mig-29s.
About Musharraf, I think he did more to upgrade the Pakistan Armed Forces then any other contemporary Pakistani Leader perhaps except Zia-ul-Haq. He has inducted the Al-Khalids, won the F-16s and added cutting edge technologies to the arsenal like AWACS, AMRAAMs, JDAMS and JSOWS. The Cruise Missiles such as Babur and Ra’ad have been inducted under his watch. The U-214 deal will most likely be signed by the end of this year. The JF-17 has come out to be what it is currently b/c of him, remember he went to China and persuaded the Chinese to take the project serious. Call him what you may, but you can not blame him for not upgrading the Pakistani Military.
what do u think will counter the indian su-30 mki?.
now a days u hear a lot about 5th generation technology and especially 5th genenation jets, U.S, Russia, Japan, India, even Brazil. Do u think Pakistan is capable of buying, if not producing these jets? You think we might be interested in the F-35 like Canada, Australia, etc.?
PlaneCrazy,
I think Pakistan’s answer to the SU-30MKIs will be the FC-20( an upgraded J-10, Super J-10 perhaps?). There is also something another supplementary option called European+1 option which most likely be determined by India’s choice for the MRCA deal. In my mind chances of Pakistan going for the Rafael is very slim especially since the only buyer to date remains the French. I would think that Pakistan will ultimately be the Euro-Fighter and some are even saying that the Saudis and the Emirates ( if they order it too) will help finance the Pakistani order. Forget about the F-35s, the F-16 is almost certainly the last American fighter jet order by Pakistan. Even the ACM said that in one of his interviews. For a true 5-th Generation fighter Pakistan will most certainly select the J-XX project to cover the remaining bases. At the moment, the PAC is being kept busy by the JF-17s, remember they have an order of at least 250+ of them very fast and I don’t they will be able to absorb another order. Keep in mind, we are talking about cutting edge technology, the stuff these planes come with is highly complicated and complex. These things are no Mirages! They are a true 4-th Gen fighters
First, i’d like to thank u for answering all my questions not only in a sophisticated manner, but also in a very polite and informative manner. A lot of the other defense forum sites that i visit tend to answer my questions very arrogantly and blame me for not being “well informed” about todays technology, jets, deals, etc. Rude idiots.
Its finally good to meet someone who articulates and gives information excellently.
By the way, i like the little smiley face on the bottom of the page
Anyways, some of the other so called “experts” on the other def. forums talk about Pakistan likely to go after the F-35. No one mentioned the J-XX project. I dunno, but by the time the J-XX is fully complete and established, it might eclipse the F-35; who knows. I like the idea of pursuing the Eurofighter; i think that would be the better option instead of the Rafales. Saudi’s and Emirates help finance the Pakistani order? hmm….that would be very supportive and kind, but what would the Saudi’s and Emirates get out of it?
About the JF-17, i like how Pakistan is stacking up on them. I’ve read a lot and done lots of research on the JF-17 but since u seem like an expert on the topic
, i wanna know its full capabalities and limits. Do u think it can go up against the F-15, F-18 Super Hornet, Rafale, Gripen, EF-2000 maybe? some of the better 4th to 4.5 generation jets?
PlaneCrazy,
The pleasure is all mine my friend! I am just sharing with you the little knowledge that I know.
About the F-35s, I think we all know how much Pakistan had to go through to get those planes. The serial humiliation and black-mailing that it endured in the 1990s is not worth taking, especially when similar tech remains all around. Evidently, the F-16s will be the last fighter planes Pakistan will purchase from the United States. The J-XX is a true competitior of the F-35 and is intended to challenge the F-22 ( at least that is the intended purpose of the project).
About the Euro-Fighters, the Arabs might potentially finance the Pakistani project as they have done in the past. The Mirages were paid for thru Arab money after-all. Many people also believe that the Saudis financed the Pakistani F-16 deal in the 1980s. The Arabs are doing this based on “Muslim Brotherhood” but because the Saudis and the Emirates have always supported the Pakistanis financially. Afterall, Pakistan generously lends its pilots to the Arabs.
The JF-17 is intended to replace the Mirages and the F-7s in the PAF inventory and we should keep that in mind. It will challenge the Mig-29s and the Mirage-2000s in the IAF but it is not the ultimate solution of the SU-30s and the MRCA deal. That is reserved for the F-16 Block-52++ and the J-10s.
Hope that helps
Yea that was great, thanks dude.
When the J-XX will finally be ready, dont u think purchasing a good amount of them would be too expensive for Pakistan? Its gonna be around the F-22 price: about 140 million dollars, maybe more even. And if the F-16’s will be the last jets that Pakistan buys from the U.S, u think relations will worsen? It seem that Pakistan is developing a long term relationship with China.
The jets aside, how would u rank the Pakistani pilots among the rest of the world’s pilots. History does show impressive stats, but it seems that PAF pilots are not getting enough appreciation. Most people dont even put them in the top 10, which is absurd. The thing that angers me the most is that people know PAF pilots have always been more superior than Indian pilots, yet they believe the IAF pilots are better and rank them higher.
“Muslim Brotherhood”, a strong and interesting phrase. This is kinda off topic but i always wonder when the Islamic states of Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded, why didn’t the rest of the Islamic countries help them out as fellow muslims? Instead, Pakistan allied with the U.S
PlaneCrazy,
China will always give Pakistan a “sweet-heart” deal, afterall, Pakistan and China are strategic allies. Pakistan will have to pay over a long period of time in a manner that will not exhaust the Pakistani economy. The F-16 is going to be Pakistan’s last purchase, because it is trying to diversify its assest so that sanctions and other political pressures in the future doesn’t hamper Pakistan’ capacity to fight back. In addition, China and other suppliers are producing products that are both cheaper and comparable to the American systems. So Pakistan is simply placing its eggs in a safer basket.
Pakistani pilots are ranked better than most pilots in the world. There was this war-games between American and Pakistani pilots. The American pilots won a margin of 2 to 1 against the Pakistani, it was impressive because few years later flying the same planes against similiar planes flown by the European pilots the Americans trashed the Europeans by a margin of 20 European jets against every American plane shot down. So there is no question about the capabilities of the Pakistani pilots. In fact, many people place the PAF pilots behind only the Israelis, in the words of one defence expert, ” the average Pakistani pilot posses superior skills then the average American pilot.”
The concept of ” Muslim Brotherhood,” is quite an interesting concept. In my mind, the Saudis and the Emirates are supporting Pakistan of the Nuclear Bombs. A strong and powerful Pakistan provides the Arab world with a breathing space viz a viz Israeli Nukes. It is no coincidence that the Pakistani Nuclear program was financied by the Libyans, Saudis and the Emirates.
Geo-politics is all interest driven. Every Muslim country is looking out for its interest. Pakistan is simply watching out for its interest. In my mind, Pakistan believes that unstable Afghanistan will provide Pakistan with a strategic depth viz a viz India. Despite being the so-called ally of the West, Pakistan continues to support the Taliban for its strategic interest. Again, it is no coincidence that Mullah Omar is against targeting Pakistani troops and interests. It is no coincidence that Karzai and other American officials accuse Pakistan for not doing enough against the Taliban.
Yes, China does sound like the safer bet. Have Pakistani pilots ever participated in Operation Red Flag which the U.S hosts every now and then?
Many of the Pakistanis i talked to agree that Pakistan is corrupt due to many high officials supporting the Taliban. They also have a very interesting point which Americans reject immediatly. They believe that during the Cold War, the U.S created the Taliban and even trained Bin Ladin to fight off the Russians. The U.S provided many weapons and training to the Afghans. When the Russians were eventually driven out, Afghanistan was completely devastated in terms of deaths, broken down cities, struggling economy, etc. Instead of helping Afghanistan rebuild and get back up on its feet, the U.S just left, without any sort of help in reconstructions. In retaliation, the Taliban got together and schemed a successful 9/11 to get back at the U.S and because of that, the U.S is now fighting the monster that it created itself.
So thats what many of my Pakistani friends/family believe.
Whats interesting now is that the same is kind of happening in Iraq. The next U.S president will be elected, the troops will come out, Iraq already has millions of civilians dead, U.S will just leave not helping to reconstruct Iraq. Another 9/11 might happen.
Granted, the U.S did help reconstruct the government and somewhat formed democracy, but they will never be able te repair the despair, fear, and ultimately the dreaded pain that the Iraqi citizens experienced.
And what is this b.s about entering Iran and telling them to stop their nuclear weapons program, because if the U.S does enter Iran the way it did Iraq, say hello to world war 3.
PlaneCrazy,
I know Pakistan took part in the Anatolian Eagle exercises with some F-16 operating countries in Turkey and from April 21st till the end of the month, Pakistan hosted Turkey for F-16 exercises and PAF is said to have trashed the Turkish pilots according to some inside infos leaked online. As more F-16s join service, you can expect Pakistan sending its premier pilots and Vipers to exchange tactics with Allied countries.
The 9/11 incident is quite interesting and many people have their own theories as to what exactly happened on that eventful day so you can fill the dots. America in my mind will try to stay in Afghanistan for the long haul for obvious strategic reasons.Iraq is a little bit different than Afghanistan in the sense that it is a major Oil supplier and it is in the West’s interest to keep things manageable.
@planecrazy14
No,Pakistan did not participate Operation Red Flag(Damn they should’ve!)
Its very strange that how Israel and India say that Pakistan cant be considered as a major U.S ally…Israel instead probably says that india is more worthy of being called an MNNA (Major Non-Nato (US)ally)
Whats the reason of calling India an MNNA?Did they ever send their army to confront terrorists face to face?
They say that becuase they dont have very good history with Pakistan. If Pakistan did participate in Operation Red Flag, they definitely would turn some heads and impress the other nations.
I guess India is somewhat of an ally if u consider the U.S giving them computer jobs.
The purpose of this post is to briefly compare the LCA tejas with the the Chinese JF-17. More information will be added as it is received.
The LCA is the smallest and the lightest light combat aircraft in world which the is indigenously designed by the India’s ADA. It is planed to replace the aging Mig 21 series aircraft and be front line mulitmission single seat tactical aircraft. LCA features State of the art avionics and beyond the visual range system including advanced fly-by-wire system.
The JF 17 is a joint project between China and Pakistan and the plane features as a all weather multipurpose light fighter and the aircraft is features with up to date avionics with only medium range missiles, but is also capable of carrying air to air missiles.
Considering the Beyond Visual Range capability of the two fighters, the LCA beats the JF 17 by a light year mainly because Pakistan is used to getting the job done with Sparrows and JF 17 is only equiped with SD 10s. LCA is equipped to carry all the next generation missiles that the SU 30mki carries along with the capability of carrying several advanced BVR missiles like AA-10 Alamo, AA-12 Adder, MICA and maybe even Derby. But the main component is the India’s own Indigenous BVR missile, Astra.
Moving on to good old dogfighting. To compare between the two on dogfighting criteria it is a little bit shaky. LCA has delta wings and no tailplanes; considering this fact LCA is more agile and maneuverable.
FC 1 will be equipped with AIM-9x and Sidewinder missiles. On the contrary LCA will be equipped AA-11 Archer, AIM-9p and with the extremely lethal Israeli Python 4 and 5.
We clearly have winner in Avionics
Really m impressed by the knowledge and the command u have on the subject. U have a profound grip on the existing technology but trust me ur knowledge is overshadowed by the fact that India and Pakistan r kinda rivals.
Believe me IAF is no less in pilot training and it has got the toughest of all learning experience. You might not agree but the whole saga of flying coffins was no where because of inexperienced pilots. It was mainly because of poorly maintained planes and poor supply of parts and all because of some corrupt ministers. yet i tell u it aint that simple cz every government shows their own prespective and does everything to hide the actual detail.
so the whole story on ground is only suppositions nothing else.
yet i ll go by my earlier statement that we shouldnt fight in ourselves cz its not worth it.
and yeah evolvinprimate i would love to tell you everything i knw about the INDIAN AIR FORCE but i cnt cz i serve there.. dont worry when time comes if at all it comes which i pray it shouldnt but if at all we get to see PAF rammin into our territory we ll definately give them a fight.. and win
but i pray that it never happens cz its really not worth it…
I hope a war is never waged between the two peace-loving neighbors. It will not help either country. Million will die from hunger than from bombs because neither economy will survive a war.
Secondly, The debate today is not of fighter planes. It is about the missiles and the nuclear warhead. Both nations are arch-rivals, which means they may even use the weapon that only the US has used that that too before the Cold War.
A little is gained from a air to air war. On top of that, a clever but a weaker air force, whether Pakistan or India (I do not want to compare), will remain grounded and use only the difficult-to-target ground launched missiles against ground targets. So no debate about air-superiority. It is a thing of the past. Maybe that is why even US is reluctant of attacking Iran using air force (the option next to cruise missiles) , because it fears the retaliation is terms of anti-ship missiles.
To the experts in this blog, I would like to ask whether a strong air force is ever needed in the battle field today.
HI mr WELLWISHER
CHALO some1 agrees to the idea of peace. YA there is an opinion around regarding the missile being advantageous over air-force. BUT there is something i wish to tell u. MISSILE attacks cant win u battles. The battle is won by ground forces. Neither Air force nor the missiles. And the major work that an airforce does is to assist a ground attack. We can bomb the major locations by missile but when it comes to 1 to 1 combat between the armies the army with better air support has an advantage.
hey persues 1st find out somyhin about planes and PAF and then talk
I am really impressed by the author of this article and his great replies and answers to both the pakistanis and indians who commented here. evolvingprime,as a pakistani myself, kudos to you, great going brother! and i really appreciate ur knowledge about such military hardware. And i also appreciate the peace loving attitude of Indian neighbours who posted here. And people like t2 are on both sides of the border who try to intimdate the citizens of other country, in this case, the indians, so persues, plz dont listen to him. BUT India should be more responsible in its attitude as a bigger counry in the region, and should respect the smaller nations in south asia. kashmir issue should be resolved as ASAP according to the wishes of kashmiris and most importantly, WATER!!! THIS issue is very serious and the Indians should not try to test the resolve of pakistani nation any further!!!
Bin Jabbal,
Thanks Bhai for the very kind remarks.
thnx BIN .. i really apreciate this whole idea of peace.. n resolving the matters asap .. but wht cn be done if we r facin menace of the kind as happened in MUMBAI ..
No body wishes for death and war but r we left with a choice?? isnt this whole thing been forced upon us!!
People dying and direct links been found to Pakistan.
Many f the intelligence agencies pointing out to the fact that Pak is becoming the hub of militancy.. then wht cn any country do to save its own interest. Wht we Indians r doing. I m with my leaders on this n u knw they r nt wrong. Its u ppl .. ppl like u who wish for peace who should take the command and then destroy these terrorists there in ur country.
And these issues for nw r petty ones n when time is ripe we can resolve them …
Evolvingprimate,
Given the advanced airplanes that the U.S has and has given the PAK.. U.S for all it had was shown the door in Vietnam (a small nation that did not have food to eat and shoes to wear) The PAK had the Sabre in 1971 and they lost East Pakistan. Whatever the PAK does one has to have the grit and brain (both) to fly in combat. (hatred clouds the vision and the ability to think right)
hey guys!
first of all hats off for thw writer of this topic
i totally agree with persues if both the countries live in peace and let the others live too its better than anything!!! i mean life is too short to mess up with!!!
Pakistan is going to kick india’s ass with that jet!!!
cool plane.
kashan ,
lets not kick any more asses , lets decide the future of kashmir, and make it a free state , that enjoys respect and freedom ,lots of our brothers have lost their lives at the hands of New Delhi’s brutality .This is only achievable if we , and Indians can head towards a meaningful dialogue .
shahid
Strange how everybody is raving about the fantastic PAF pilots and Pakistani army exploits. Lets come down to earth and the reality begginniong with, the PAF was nowwhere in Dec 1971 and the Pakistani army surrendered in East Pakistan. Again during the Kargil conflict, niether the PAF was around nor did the Pakistani army stand around.At present Pakistan has its whole North and north westren border in flames fighting a massive insurgency. It does not even have a government running in this area. They are being governed by a bunch of thugs and terrorist. I think Pakistani’s , for the sake of their own country’s existance should try to find a solution to this situation. Do not worry about Kashmir, they do not seem to be interested in Independance, which can be seen by their participation in the recent elections. War between in India and Pakistan is not an option and it seems to be just a case of bullies saying my penis is bigger than yours!!!!!
N Guru,
Kargil was a low intensity conflict. Deploying the Pakistani Air Force in Kargil would have escalated the conflict and inflicted a gross self-defeat to Pakistan’s argument that its military wasn’t involved. Having said this, the Pakistani Army managed to shoot down 2 Indian jets and captured one Indian pilot as POW.
With regards to 1971, it is important to remember that a squadron of 14 PAF Jets in Bangladesh managed to keep the entire Indian Air Force at bay. In the Western Sector, I don’t think anyone disputes the fact that the Pakistani Air Force maintained Air Superiority over its skies.
Kashmir is a very controversial issue and its outcome will depend largely on what steps leaders in both countries take. The outcome of this issue will have a defining role in shaping the future of South Asia.
LOL
sorry dude. but u r overestimating PAF so much. all those 71 facts are incorrect, sure maybe squadron of 14 PAF Jets in Bangladesh managed to keep the entire Indian Air Force at bay, maybe for a few days before they got pulverised. check your facts from a neutral source not hearsay
That’s right, bro. 14 PAF jets in the Eastern sector in 1977 managed to keep the entire Indian Air Force at bay, till the very last day of the war. Just Google
By the way,
Enjoy this youtube video